tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3060018155246719536.post4493429247189893379..comments2011-10-11T22:33:52.819-07:00Comments on mindless administrata: USENIX, LOPSA continue fight; Community loosesnhrubyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13094997877528724734noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3060018155246719536.post-10758547004913126222008-06-18T14:51:00.000-07:002008-06-18T14:51:00.000-07:00I'm not being clueless, Brandon, and I think you'r...I'm not being clueless, Brandon, and I think you're too angry to think rationally about this issue. It's easy to get angry (for so very many reasons) but we need to think openly about how to make it better for everyone involved in the end, not just the immediate.<BR/><BR/>I am perhaps being overly-idealistic, but someone should be. I understand the the organization known as LOPSA did not ask, want or do anything to be pulled into this suit. I personally think that it's a horrible, horrible situation and that USENIX should be ashamed for doing this.<BR/><BR/>That said, LOPSA, USENIX/SAGE and AH are now officially and legally in it together. More than that, all have a somewhat intertwined history that is really difficult to ignore. <BR/><BR/>My point is: What's a healthier (not <I> right-as-in-righteous</I>, mind you) process for the community? Litigate the crap out of each other to the detriment of all, or sit down, admit everyone screwed up just a little, everyone pays a few bucks to AH as a result and agree to let bygones-be-bygones? <BR/><BR/>In the latter, everyone walks away with a much smaller chip on their shoulder and it'll fade in time. In the former, someone gets a hollow win while everyone else in the community looses dearly and takes it to their grave.<BR/><BR/>This whole sorry saga needs to end quickly and quietly and I think LOPSA is in the best position to try to take the leadership role in making that happen. Clearly USENIX or AH won't, because they're the ones who let it get this far in the first place.<BR/><BR/>Just because we got brought into this fight, doesn't mean we can't make the world a better place. <BR/><BR/>And yes, I do believe in the Easter Bunny. Why do you ask?nhrubyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13094997877528724734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3060018155246719536.post-91710438619406850812008-06-18T00:41:00.000-07:002008-06-18T00:41:00.000-07:00Man, this all just makes me sick and sad. Nathan, ...Man, this all just makes me sick and sad. Nathan, I agree with you on the question of arbitration. Both LOPSA and USENIX/SAGE just hit me up for membership renewal fees. Although I have been a member of USENIX/SAGE for about eight years and of LOPSA since practically its inception I cannot in good conscience give arms, as it were, to both sides. It feels as though in supporting either one I'm contributing to the dimming of our overall cause. Fie!Treyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06332655380910759897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3060018155246719536.post-17896819384999158412008-06-17T22:37:00.000-07:002008-06-17T22:37:00.000-07:00Also, quite honestly, most of us think that LOPSA ...Also, quite honestly, most of us think that LOPSA ceasing to exist one way or another is exactly what USENIX wants.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02196401009454414996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3060018155246719536.post-52199430788465220862008-06-17T22:35:00.000-07:002008-06-17T22:35:00.000-07:00You're being clueless, I'm afraid.The point is tha...You're being clueless, I'm afraid.<BR/><BR/>The point is that LOPSA did <EM>nothing whatsoever</EM> to be brought into this, and LOPSA cannot extricate itself; USENIX forced LOPSA in and USENIX must declare it is no longer a party to this lawsuit, or LOPSA must cease to exist as a legal entity so that USENIX no longer has an entity to make party to their suit. It's USENIX's playground and USENIX's ball, LOPSA has no recourse whatsoever.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02196401009454414996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3060018155246719536.post-45585136328896803502008-06-14T13:07:00.000-07:002008-06-14T13:07:00.000-07:00LOPSA has to cease operations to fix this? Says w...LOPSA has to cease operations to fix this? Says who? Or is that a logical conclusion to the "we have no money and lawyers are expensive, ergo we will be forced to close so we can pay the laywers" line of thinking? <BR/><BR/>I happen to agree with that line of thinking, but let's try to be clear about it. I haven't seen a document or anyone saying "Dear LOPSA, if you cease-to-be, we'll make this go away." If you happen to see one, please post it.<BR/><BR/>At the end of the day, this is a billing and contract dispute between USENIX and AH that LOPSA got pulled into. Probably because of the past, and the split, and the fact that it was the same bunch of people -- all of whom have strong feelings, such as yours.<BR/><BR/>My point is that if this becomes a protracted legal event LOPSA will probably be crushed but SAGE probably won't get any better either. No one will win (except perhaps the lawyers). More animosity will be created between the few leaders we do have, and the profession will slide further into obscurity. Perhaps so far it will stop mattering. <BR/><BR/>Certainly I'm starting to feel that way. <BR/><BR/>No one wants that. Therefore I suggest that before anyone activates any plans for mutual assured destruction AH, USENIX, and LOPSA should try arbitration. From the outside having watched most of the process, it <I>is</I> all kind of related. Perhaps the best way to <I>move forward</I> would be for everyone to take a little responsibility, solve the problem at hand and put the past behind us.<BR/><BR/>Yes, I realize that not fair to anyone. Life isn't a pony farm.<BR/><BR/>I think trying to figure out who's responsible and why, and what contracts were signed when is a rathole. And if we descend into it we'll never return.nhrubyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13094997877528724734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3060018155246719536.post-11225996692906358612008-06-14T12:01:00.000-07:002008-06-14T12:01:00.000-07:00Mmm, I think you're not paying attention. USENIX ...Mmm, I think you're not paying attention. USENIX just dragged LOPSA into it with no warning; the only way LOPSA can "end it" is by voluntarily ceasing operations. <EM>USENIX</EM> can end it — but Ellie isn't about to let go of her head trip.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02196401009454414996noreply@blogger.com